Jason Redman:

The Overcome and Conquer Show is presented by The Project. The Project is a full immersion, 75 hour experience designed for men who know in their core they are not living up to their fullest potential. Rather than waking up every morning ready to dominate life, the mediocre man rolls out of bed and slides into the same unfulfilling routine they’ve unhappily been in for way too long. The Project is for men that have lost their internal flame and motivation to conquer. It’s for men living an unfulfilling life that lacks excitement and purpose. Sound familiar? Then listen up. The Project is specifically designed to challenge you mentally and physically. We push you to the ledge of self limiting beliefs and prove you’ve got much more in the tank. We kill the bitch and unleash the beast. We uncover the demons that holds you back and turn extreme pain into superpowers to dominate life.

Jason Redman:

In the end, we turned mediocre men into modern day knights. We forge a brotherhood and bond that levels you up. It’s a better husband, father, and friend, but The Project is not for every man. In fact, it’s not for most. For men who are okay with being in a rut and achieving less than their fullest potential, The Project isn’t for you. If you’re not willing to put in the work to fix what isn’t working, The Project isn’t for you. However, if you’re done white knuckling it through life, living one day at a time with no sense of purpose and are willing to do what it takes to improve, The Project holds the key to unlocking the next chapter. Graduates of The Project join a brotherhood up modern day knights and become the authors of their destiny. They have their fire reignited and reclaim dominance over their family, fitness, finances, and faith. If this resonates with you and you want to learn more, we encourage you to apply today at www.mdkproject.com/ocshow.

Ray Care:

Everybody wants to be on top the hill. The problem nowadays is, people want to get dropped off at the top of the hill and look down.

Jason Redman:

Is that, I overcome, mindset that makes all the difference.

Ray Care:

See the way we’re taught is, you’re going to crawl, you’re going to scratch, you’re going to bite, you’re going to dig, you’re going to do whatever it takes to get to the top of that mountain.

Jason Redman:

That unequivocally is how I have managed to keep myself moving forward and finding success.

Voiceover:

Two Seals, one mission, The Overcome and Conquer Show.

Jason Redman:

Welcome back to The Overcome and Conquer Show. As always, we bring you motivation, inspiration, leadership, and we bring amazing guests. Today, Mr. Ray Cash Care, AKA the captain. We have another amazing guest.

Ray Care:

I thought I was going to be the guest the way you introed me. I got all excited. I was like, “Holy shit, I’m doing my studying.” Okay.

Jason Redman:

Ray, you’re always my guest.

Ray Care:

Thank you. Thank you. So what have you been up to, sir?

Jason Redman:

You know, man, the book, and it’s so funny because we’re going to be talking about another book today, but yeah, mine is getting ready … Well, mine’s come out.

Ray Care:

Now, true story.

Jason Redman:

True story.

Ray Care:

Again, I have a version I’m, I’m going to just lay it out here. I have a version of digital copy of your book that you gave me. I didn’t steal it because I got to watch what I say …

Jason Redman:

It’s pre-edits. Yeah, that’s in the early phase.

Ray Care:

I have early the original, the OG book. I’ll tell you, I cannot stress enough, ladies and gentlemen, you have to read, Overcome. You have to buy it. I’m commanding you. I’m giving you an order. If you don’t like the book, I’ll give you your money back. I will. I’ll do that. Now, I will, because I’ve read the book. I will. I know what the book costs. It is that impactful. It’s that powerful. It’s that relatable.

Jason Redman:

Thank you brother. Much, much love. I appreciate that. I think it’s a book that’s going to help people no different than the guest we have today. The book they have is going to help people, it is … in a similar vein, I don’t want to tip my hat on our guests. I don’t like to get ahead of myself, but …

Ray Care:

We can’t say who she is. I tip the hat. I tip the hat.

Jason Redman:

Ray. Nope. Hey, what do you got going on right now?

Ray Care:

I’m just …

Jason Redman:

Tell me about LTD, what is that?

Ray Care:

Well, literally what it is, is obviously we’re running the project with Bedros Keuilian and the five horsemen, colloquially myself, yeah.

Jason Redman:

Overcome and Conquer Show presented by The Project.

Ray Care:

Yeah. There’s the plug. LTD is literally a spin off of that where we are taking businesses who need the four pillars of success, which is team building, problem solving, leadership, and the biggest one of all, communication. What we’re doing is we educate, we motivate and we decimate. How do we do that? We demonstrate what we’re going to do, then we execute it, and then we follow up with an AAR, which is an after action report, and we explain how we take the battlefield to the business field, to the home field. All of this will help you, from the ground up, give you foundation to be more successful.

Jason Redman:

I love it, dude. So any of you out there, all of you that listen to this show, if you run a business or if you’re a part of a business, you need to check out the LTD experience. It is awesome. Where do they go?

Ray Care:

They can go to www.ltdproject.com, and/or you can go to Ray Cash Care and DM me on Instagram and I can give you all the literature and information and pricing and all that crap. That’s not me. All I want to do is come to you and make a difference with my business partner seven figure entrepreneur and Marine Steve Eckert.

Jason Redman:

I love it. I love Steve. He’s an animal. The two of you guys together are a power house.

Ray Care:

Much respect.

Jason Redman:

All right, well since we are talking about A, we started out talking about a book and B, we were talking about leadership, teamwork, bringing people together …

Ray Care:

Yes sir.

Jason Redman:

… showing people a mission and communication that tees up our guest quite amazingly. I got to tell you guys, it’s an honor to have this beautiful young woman on. She is out there on the front lines raising awareness and in support of our nation’s military veterans and families of our fallen heroes.

Ray Care:

Amen.

Jason Redman:

I tell you what, it all started because her absolutely incredible brother who was just … he was a Marine, a man of character leadership, and he made the ultimate sacrifice. First Lieutenant Travis Manion in the Al Anbar province of Iraq, while drawing fire, his guys were under fire on April 29, 2007. I was actually just getting into Iraq when this occurred, that same year. I would be wounded later that year. The Al Anbar province was an incredibly hot spot at that time. We lost so many amazing American heroes during that year and the ’06, ’07 timeframe and so many wounded. But our amazing, amazing guest is the coauthor of a newly released book, The Knock at the Door, three Gold Star families bonded by grief and purpose. I just finished the book. It is amazing.

Jason Redman:

She now is the president of the Travis Manion Foundation taking on that role in 2012, and they are leading a national movement, assisting veterans’ families of the fallen and just getting out there showing kids how to lead by example in everything they do in honor of her brother who made a very clear statement, and we’re going to talk about that statement in the interview and everything about the organization, everything with their program, trying to educate kids to be involved is all built around her brother and that single statement. She has been out there just advocating on behalf and just inspiring others. So many of our veterans, so many of our Americans, so many patriots to be involved in this country and to honor the sacrifice.

Jason Redman:

She has been highlighted on Good Morning America, CBS This Morning, CNN, The Today Show, Fox News and so many more. I’m not even going to get into all her awards, but I got to tell you, this is an individual who … one of the biggest things I’ll tell you in this intro is for any of you out there that say, “It’s too late for me. I’ve lost my way.” Or maybe you never found your way. Everything about Mrs. Ryan Manion’s life is built around this principle. She had that impactful moment when she lost her brother and it turned her life around and she has continued to set the example in everything she does. It is my honor to bring on the president of the Travis Manion Foundation, the author of the Knock at the Door, Mrs. Ryan Manion. Welcome to the Overcome and Conquer Show.

Ryan Manion:

Hello, that was quite an introduction. I have to say. That was a fantastic thing. Thank you, Jason.

Jason Redman:

Thank you. Thank you. I can be hired for intros all over the place.

Ryan Manion:

Yes, I’m going to take you on the road with me.

Jason Redman:

Well, you know that sometimes when you leave it to somebody to do your intro, you never know what’s going to happen.

Ryan Manion:

That’s true.

Jason Redman:

You try and craft it. I guarantee you big intros.

Ray Care:

Well, this is what I’ll guarantee you ma’am. I actually was a guest on our show and he goes in, my next guest is Ray Care. That’s what I got. I got nothing else. Our producer Ryan was like, “Holy crap, that was supposed to be a three minutes [crosstalk 00:09:30].

Jason Redman:

There’s so much empty airspace right now.

Ray Care:

It was just an uncomfortable silence, but yeah. I don’t even think he gave you the credit due that you needed, ma’am. Your bio wow, it is very impressive, and that’s coming from two Navy seals. One a little bit more cocky and arrogant than the other. But yes, your bio is amazing. I’ve read it over several times. You have accomplished some greatness, ma’am.

Ryan Manion:

Thank you.

Ray Care:

You’re welcome.

Jason Redman:

Ryan, welcome to the show. We’re just honored to have you on. Right now, you guys are riding an amazing wave as it should be. The Travis Manion Foundation continues to grow, continues to have impact, and the new book was incredibly very well written and very relatable. I think that’s one of the greatest things. One of my focus out there to help people overcome adversity and deal with, I call them life ambushes. You guys make it so relatable with that knock on the door, that the knock on the door is coming for anyone. That really is going to be my, I think, my first question because a lot of people out there that may not be familiar with the Gold Star Community, our military community don’t understand what that knock on the door is. I know that’s a really hard moment. I will not lie to you. I had a lot of awesomeness leaking out when I read that part. Tell us what that means and about that pivotal moment that changed your life forever.

Ryan Manion:

Sure. The knock at the door for my family came on April 29th, 2007. I actually happened to be in the area. That day I had come up to my parents’ house. My family had over 30 people at their house at the time. My mom had thrown an impromptu barbecue that morning. It was a beautiful day, and invited a bunch of our family and friends over. While we were all there and my dad was literally out on the back deck flipping burgers on the grill, we had a Marine and dress blue show up at the door to share with us that my brother had given his life in Iraq that morning.

Ryan Manion:

There’s nothing you can do to prepare for something like that, but I think there is definitely and was definitely something very telling about the fact that we did have our closest family and friends in the house with us. A lot of that certainly brought us comfort immediately. But you think about the idea that thousands and thousands of families have received the same knock, and it’s that instant where your life changes and the life that you once knew is over and a new life begins. It takes a lot to process that initial shock, but it was definitely the worst day of my life, 100%.

Jason Redman:

It was amazing to me, and obviously coming from this community, I’ve seen it, I’ve lost friends. We’ve experienced it, but it was amazing to me to read the different stories within the book and how it impacted each one of you guys differently and how the call came … Or not the call, but the knock came differently, obviously for Amy and for Heather. But obviously the impact, just monumental for anyone. I mean, just such an instantaneous moment. I call them life ambushes. It is an unexpected, just something that totally knocks you off your feet. Even though you’re not being hit by bullets and bombs, like we are in combat, they are bullets and bombs of life, and they paint us just as much as it does in combat, unfortunately.

Jason Redman:

That moment came, but it actually, for so many that are out there, and it happened for all of you, for you, for Amy, and for Heather, it changed your lives. Once you managed to navigate through that grief, and not get to the other side, because obviously those scars we’ll carry forever, but you turned it into something productive.

Ryan Manion:

We did. I think after Travis was killed, you try to find some sort of focus. You tried to find something to give meaning to that loss. For my family, that was the Travis Manion Foundation. Really, originally, we saw this as more of a labor of love, a way for, not my family so much, but my mom to channel her grief. The foundation was started pretty much immediately. We became a 501(c)(3) by 2008. I saw it as a way for a mother to channel the loss of her only son. I never saw the foundation being much more than a small memorial fund in the local area. My had much different plans for what she envisioned and my dad and I were a little shortsighted and not recognizing that when she set her mind to something she was going to follow through with it.

Ryan Manion:

I get terribly uncomfortable when people say like, “#ow, look at this organization you’ve created.” Because the fact of the matter is, I didn’t create it. I’m just trying to keep it going. I always say like, I jumped on the bandwagon at TMF once we were already moving pretty fast. I was like, “Oh, something’s happening here. Yeah, I want to be a part of this too.” I think everybody has to find, when you have that ambush or that knock at the door, everybody has to find that moment and that way to move forward. For us it was TMF. It was okay, and we’re going to put our heads down and we’re going to continue Travis’s legacy of service. But there’s a ton of different ways that you can do that. We book to give that same opportunity to other families and other transitioning veterans through the work that we’re doing at TMF.

Jason Redman:

I know that Ray and I, looking back, and I want to take a step back for a second because the work you guys are doing and what you’ve done is amazing and you’re making an impact. I think for many people out there, especially younger people in this country, they see some successful people. You are a successful person, you have gone through a lot of pain and transition to get where you are. But you weren’t always this person. I found it entertaining in the book. I know Ray has a question for you, but …

Ray Care:

Let’s rewind to a night that there was a party. Legend has it that you convinced your brother to go to this party with you, correct?

Ryan Manion:

I convinced him, but because I needed a designated driver.

Ray Care:

Okay, so you were a partier and now maybe you can explain what happened at that party. What we’re talking about is you reflect back on that time. Can you elaborate on, the story’s kind of funny, what happened, but why do you reflect on that story that night? Because obviously your brother was an athlete. You were crazy from what I’ve heard. You were a partier. I can relate to that, but obviously you guys have that connection and that bond. So can you kind of elaborate on that?

Ryan Manion:

Sure. Travis and I were terribly close. We were born to a military family. I was born in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. When you grow up in a military family and you’re moving every two years, you become pretty tight with your siblings because no matter where you go, you’ve got to start fresh. For me, it was like, okay, we’re moving. I’ve got to make new friends. I’ve always got my built-in best friend and my brother. Outside of that, we were only 15 months apart. So we were very close in age and …

Jason Redman:

Irish twins.

Ryan Manion:

Irish twins. Yeah. And so my dad did 11 years active duty, 19 years in the reserves, and when he left active duty and we settled outside of the Philadelphia area, I was so excited at the prospect of just having friends for longer than two years. I definitely like I wasn’t … I didn’t go down any terrible path. But yeah, I like to have fun. Frankly, when I was going through high school my biggest concerns were where the best party was on Friday night and how we were going to get there and how I was going to stay out past curfew without mom and dad finding out. Whereas my brother was focused on how he was going to become an all American wrestler.

Ryan Manion:

I’ll tell you like I was never jealous of him, I was never like, I’m the black sheep. I was so proud of him and I’ve recognized that drive that was in him from a very young age. I was very happy to take the backseat to his successes, but at the same time, I think he was also a bit envious of the fact that I had a very lighthearted attitude towards any sense of responsibility. On this particular night, there was a big party with in an upperclassman’s house. I knew that if Travis was coming with me that my parents would be much more lenient in how long we were staying out and what was going on. So I asked Travis to take my friends and I to this party.

Ryan Manion:

Like many times, the cops ended up showing up at the party. We live in Bucks County, which is like the first County North of Philadelphia. There’s definitely some farm land around here and a lot of people live on big acreage and there’s a lot of corn fields. So when the cops come, typically it’s pretty easy to outrun them because there’s a lot of places to go. On this night, the cops showed up, everybody be lined out the back door and there was a creek that led into a large cornfield pasture and there was a tiny little footbridge. There must’ve been 200 kids trying to cross this bridge that was four feet wide. As we’re running along, I just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Somebody banged into me and I fell into the creek.

Ryan Manion:

I probably fell a good 10 feet down. It wasn’t a small little like ravine. I fell down in the creek and just pure adrenaline climbed up the side and just kept running into the corn field. And we stopped at one point. I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a cornfield, but when you’re in a cornfield at night and the moon is up there, it becomes super bright. It’s an interesting thing. If you’ve never been in a cornfield take [crosstalk 00:20:54].

Jason Redman:

It’s wild too. Depending on the time of the year, running through the corn stalks. Yeah, I lived in North Carolina. We had some cornfields where I was too.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah. I just remember the moon was super bright that night. I looked down and my leg is covered in blood, which I had no idea I’d actually hurt myself. I’m like, “I’m not turning back. I’m not turning back. My brother’s like, “You got to turn back.” Well, this point I had already had two underage drinking citations. I was very careful, I never got behind the wheel drinking, but I always seem to be the one that got caught. My last underage drinking prior to that was at my own house. I threw a party at my house. Everybody ran, but I’m like, “I guess I can’t run. I live here.” I ended up with underage drinking.

Ray Care:

They’re going to figure this one out. Yeah.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah. But my brother said, “We got to go back.” We went back and we’re walking up, and I’m just confined to the fact that, all right, I’m getting my third underage because the cops are clearly still there. We can see the car in sight, and as we’re walking up, I’m like, “Oh my God, we made it.” And then, light just splashes right in our eyes. It’s an officer and he’s, right away like, “What are your names?” And as soon as my brother said, “Travis Manion,” it was like a light bulb clicked in the officer’s head. He’s like, “Wait, Travis Man… Wait, you wrestle at LaSalle, right?” This was the high school my brother went to. He said, “Yes sir.”

Ryan Manion:

Oh my gosh, kid, you’re having a great wrestling season. My brother was coming up against a huge match to the archrival they just started talking. I’m sitting there like, oh my God, what is going on?

Jason Redman:

You’re like, I’m bleeding out here, but keep going. Keep going, please.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah. I’m bleeding out, I’m a little drunk. And my brother’s sitting here talking to the cop about wrestling. But Travis was also very intuitive, so we realize what’s going on, and turned and said, “Sir, this is my sister. She’s had a little bit to drink. I’ve had nothing. I’m going to be driving, but she did injure her leg. Do you think I can get her to the hospital?” And it was all of a sudden you turned right back into like, police officer, not, I’m just … and he was like, “Get out of here now.” We jumped in the car and I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I’m like, “Thank God you’re an all American wrestler and they recognized you.” He was like my saving grace that night.

Ryan Manion:

But I never went to the hospital. I was terrified to go to the hospital because then again, my parents would find out, and I have a terribly ugly scar right on my shin. It’s like basically a chunk taken out of the front of my leg. I used to hate it because I remember after that when it scarred up, I was like, Oh my gosh, why didn’t I get this taken care of? Now it’s such beautiful reminder of like an awesome night with my bother. I love that scar now.

Jason Redman:

I just love the story that it tells the character of your brother. It’s just funny to me that you … the dichotomy of siblings because I’m an Irish twin also. My sister and I are very close. I was the opposite. I was the kid that wanted to do my own thing. I actually got kicked out and she was more of the straight laced one, but amazing how we grow up and we figure things out because obviously I figured it out too and you have gone on to figure it out and you’re doing amazing things. Kids out there, if you’re telling yourself, “Oh my God, I’m never going to amount to anything.” I was that kid running across that bridge fostering my leg.

Ray Care:

I’m like looking at me, the female version of me, your story, I’ve literally done that, and I was like, she sounds like she’s from Hampstead, Maryland, running from the cops at a party in a cornfield. My brother actually died before I was born, but I was just like, wow, it relates. That’s what I love about the story and I knew that’s where the scar was going. Sometimes people look down at scars and different things come, but you find beauty in the scar. That’s what I think a lot of people can resonate with and that’s what I was waiting to hear. I love it. It’s a great story.

Jason Redman:

Embrace your scars.

Ray Care:

Embrace, that’s right, man. I got them all over and each one tells a story, right?

Ryan Manion:

Absolutely. It was funny. I’ve got a five year old son named Travis. It wasn’t too long ago we were sitting down and he said, “Mommy, what’s that?” And he like stuck his finger in the scar, because it is. It’s like a dent taken out. I think I hit a rock, like the edge of a rock or something,

Ray Care:

I want to see it.

Jason Redman:

We want to see the scar.

Ray Care:

Can we see it? Is it possible?

Ryan Manion:

I have jeans. [crosstalk 00:25:31] see it, but he said, “Mommy, what’s that? And I said, “Oh,” I said, “It’s a scar.” And he goes, “What happened?” I said, “Oh, it was just a really fun night I had with your uncle.” I’ll tell you when you’re older kid.

Jason Redman:

Yeah, it’s funny with our kids. We don’t want to tell them what we really did.

Ryan Manion:

Exactly.

Jason Redman:

Ryan, fast forward obviously, with the loss of your brother, it started a process of grief. It started a whole another scar. A scar that, just like the one on your leg, will never fully recover. So many people out there right now listening to this interview have their own scars, and whether it’s the loss of a loved one, whether it is perhaps sexual trauma, whether it is, whatever life ambush has hit them, talk to me a little bit about, reading the book, your process of grief. As a matter of fact, all three of you went through similar processes yet different, unique to the individual. What advice can you give individuals when they’re trying to drive through grief and get through it?

Jason Redman:

I will say, coming from the military background I loved, Heather talked about the dark humor. She talked about the dark humor. I know within our community that’s something that a lot of times people can’t appreciate, especially, no offense to any civilians that are out there, but sometimes with the military, we get in some pretty dark areas that people are like, “Oh my God, did that just come out of your mouth?” Talk about those two things. That journey through grief and how you actually can use humor to try and lighten some of these situations.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah. Well, I think we have the incredible fortune of working with Gold Star families every day and. One of the things that I will share with them, especially those that are new in their loss is, a lot of times they’ll say, “When do you stop grieving?” I’m very quick to say, “You don’t. You don’t stop grieving. You don’t ever stop grieving for your loved one.” The grief will change and it will manifest. I’m 12 years out from the loss of my brother. Don’t think there are days where I just completely lose it, where I’m overtaken by the fact that he’s not here anymore and that’s going to happen, but I think if we understand that it’s a process, we can learn to accept it more.

Ryan Manion:

I think there are certain things, I love the way Heather talks about how she used humor, and still does use humor. She’s got this, in her office in San Diego, it’s a picture of two skeletons and one’s wearing a tuxedo and the other wearing a wedding dress. I forget the line, but it’s got a little thing and said, “As I said till death do us part.” Oh no, “Death do us part is for quitters.” That’s what it says.

Jason Redman:

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.

Ryan Manion:

She still uses humor as a way to deal with it. She tells us fabulous story of how her and Rob’s brother, they’re sitting in the funeral home and they’re going over like, what leather bound books do you want for everyone to sign? She said, all I could think is like, Rob could care less what … grab a notebook from CVS. Who cares about what type of leather bound book that people are going to put their name in? Rob’s brother says something ridiculous like, “Heather, I believe that Rob would want you to ride into the service on an elephant.” Well, there were other Marines, like the CACO officer was in the room, and Heather said, “I actually think that they started … they pleased to call to the Washington Zoo to see if we could possibly get an …” they thought we were serious. [inaudible 00:29:33] about like …

Jason Redman:

What an intro.

Ryan Manion:

Yes, I would actually like to be … John, I’d like to come in on an elephant. I think that would be appropriate. She said, “People didn’t get it at first and they were kind of looking at us funny, but that’s what helped me to move forward, and especially in the beginning days.” Me on the opposite, I couldn’t laugh. I remember it was probably 24 hours, maybe 48 hours after Travis was killed. My house was filled with people, my parents’ house, and somebody said something and everybody started laughing, and I was pissed off. I’m like, “Why are you all laughing?” My brother just died 48 hours ago. My uncle looked at me, and he’s like, “You’re going to laugh again. You may not think about it now, but you will laugh again.”

Ryan Manion:

I think the interesting thing about the book is that Amy and Heather and I, we didn’t … there’s not one roadmap to how you grieve and how you move through tragedy and adversity in your life. There’s a lot of different ways to do that. I think telling our stories and so someone can see like, hey, Ryan did this, and if this didn’t work for Ryan, but it worked for Heather and vice versa with Amy, I love the way that we can show all three of our stories in a way to say collectively maybe there’s something from the three of us that you can pull from to help as you work through whenever you’re going through in your life.

Ryan Manion:

Like you said, for us it was, it was the loss of a brother and two husbands, but I also talk about another knock on the door in the book and that’s the death of my mom from cancer. That was a very different knock that my family received. But the book is meant to color not just the knocks you receive through the military, but the knocks that each and every one of us are going to receive in our life.

Jason Redman:

I do find it amazing. You nailed it. Having worked with so many Gold Star families when I was running my organization, that wall of guilt that we tend to place … that I’ve seen so many place on themselves that we cannot have fun. They feel guilty for having fun or laughing. I know that Heather tells the story of buying the blanket. Buying the blanket and then feeling so shamed and guilty because she had spent some money obviously that had come from the insurance, and then she felt guilty and she never could use the blanket. It’s amazing these weird things we place on ourselves, but that we have to navigate through. We have to navigate through those landmines. That leads us to the word of the day. I mean, I think it’s perfect, which your word was resilience. As with every show, Ray, what does Mr. Webster say about resilience?

Ray Care:

It’s funny. Usually, the Webster doesn’t hit the nail on the head. We usually have you expand, but this one did … I did a little searching and I found a pretty good similarity of a definition. So, an ability to recover from or adjust easily to misfortune and or change. Normally, it’s often right field, but I think you are definitely the definition of someone who has had to recover from loss. Maybe you could expand, what is your definition of resilience?

Ryan Manion:

Gosh, that’s a pretty good … I don’t know that I’ve ever looked up the definition of resilience. That’s a pretty good one. I think for me, one of the things I talk about in the book and the thing that if I could pinpoint anything from the loss of Travis that bothers me the most, it’s that he didn’t get to see this version of me. We were so incredibly close. I talk about the idea of before Travis left for Iraq, or while he was in Iraq, he called my dad to run the Marine Corps marathon with him and didn’t make it home. My dad ends up running and we all ran it with him. But I think about the fact that Travis didn’t call me to run the marathon because he knew, at that time, if he would have called me, I would have laughed in his face. Like, “No way I’m running a marathon.”

Ryan Manion:

What I just want to say to people is, don’t wait until your loved one is gone to be that best version of yourself. I hope to God that Travis sees who I am now and sees what I’m doing and is cheering me on from above because I think about all the incredible things that I have an opportunity to do now. The thing that I regret the most is that he’s not here to do them with me.

Ray Care:

That’s amazing that you just said that because, as you know, you see us typing on the computer, we do little notes, and I literally just wrote, and I’ll show it to you, he sees and his looking down. I literally just wrote that and then you did that and I get emotional with that. Just because my wife’s mother died of breast cancer and I’ve had a lot of tragedy too, but he does see the best version of you. He saw it back then too. Even though you may not have thought it was the best version of you, he sees it, he saw it in you and I guaran-darn-tee that he’s looking down and he’s proud. I guarantee it. I guarantee it, and I know Jason is. Literally, it was amazing, literally, as soon as I hit, he sees and he’s looking down, you said that and I was like, holy shit. She can see what I’m writing. It’s lie, wait a minute, do we share …? It’s amazing. But Jay, you want to elaborate on that?

Jason Redman:

I was just going to say that, yeah, absolutely, and there’s no doubt. Travis is probably … he’s got a whole bunch, he’s got an army in heaven marching them around. Guys like that, that’s what they do. There’s no doubt in my mind. You guys have been tested with resilience, and I was amazed at the intersections of this story how obviously with the loss of Travis in 2010, and you knew the Looney family and that Amy was a friend who was there because Travis and Brendan were friends from the Academy and she was there at Travis’s funeral. And then you lost your mom, and then shortly after that, Brendan was killed.

Ryan Manion:

Brendan was before. [crosstalk 00:36:09].

Jason Redman:

I’m sorry. Sorry about that. But the loss of Brendan and then obviously your mom. This was a massive amount of, holy smokes, life adversity in a very short period of time. It was amazing to me how these things intersected, but I thought the story of how it all came together with the decision to … I’ll let you tell the story, what happened with in Brendan, how they put them together, which I thought was one of the most amazing things. And obviously a big shout out to our government and DOD for allowing that to happen because I know there were some big groups.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah, absolutely. When Travis was killed … I’ll actually go backwards. Before Travis was killed. This was one night, he was at my house in Jersey. We were drinking some beers and we were sitting in my kitchen. Out of nowhere, I don’t know what we were talking about, nothing to do with anything, and then he said, “Hey, by the way, I’m going back to Iraq, if anything happens, I’d want to be buried at Arlington. And I was like, “Shut up. I am not having this conversation with you.” I actually jokingly said, “If anything happens to you, you’re going to be buried at the family plot where our grandparents are buried because there’s no way that that mom’s going to be driving down to Arlington. That’s way too far.” And we both kind of laughed about it, kept drinking our beer. That was it.

Ryan Manion:

Well, Travis passes away and right away my mom’s like, “He’s got to be buried at our family plot.” I’m like sitting there like, “Oh my God, do I say something? Do I not say something?” And I didn’t say anything because I’m watching my grieving mother and I’m just like, I’m not going to say anything. This is what my parents had planned. We buried him right outside of Philadelphia where my grandparents are buried. I guess, about a month later, I actually wasn’t the first one to say something, it was actually one of Travis’s friends that, one of his Marine buddies, said something to my dad, like, “Listen sir, I didn’t feel comfortable saying it at the time, but Travis had actually told me that if he were to be killed in Iraq, he’d want to be buried at Arlington.”

Ryan Manion:

My dad comes and he’s like, “Oh, guess what so-and-so said to me?” And I was like, “Oh, well, Travis actually said the same thing to me.” He’s like, “What?” There must’ve been five or six people that eventually felt like they had to say something. My parents knew within months after burying Travis that his desire was to be buried at Arlington. On the same hand, you’ve got a grieving mother who is 30 minutes away from her son and is driving there every Sunday to sit at his grave. While my mom wasn’t resigned to moving him to Arlington, she also wasn’t ready to say this is his permanent resting place. So for three years, Travis was at the cemetery outside of Philadelphia with nothing more than a wooden cross and a laminated picture of him because every time we went to have the discussion about, are we going to put a tombstone here, my mom would say, “Well, I just don’t know. I feel guilty, but I like having him close.”

Ryan Manion:

It’s like, how do you have those conversations with the mother. So Brendan’s killed. One of the first things that happens, it’s like, knock on the door, your loved one has died. Okay, within two hours, we need you to start making decisions because things have to happen. It’s a crazy process. And so right away, they’re in front of Amy like, “Where do you want Brendan buried?” And she’s like, I want him buried next to Travis.” At this point, my parents are already there at the house with Amy. My mom’s like, “Amy, Travis is buried in Philadelphia. You know that. You were at the funeral. She said, “Well, I don’t care. Bury him there.”

Ryan Manion:

My mom’s like, “Amy, we’re not going to bury Brendan at … you don’t want him buried at a cemetery in Philadelphia that has no meaning to him, that has no connection.” She said, “You should bury him at Arlington.” And Amy said, “Well, then why can’t you move Travis there next to him?” Really, that was how the conversation went. My mom walked out of the room, she caught her and my dad, her and her dad called me and they said, “We want to try and move Travis to Arlington.” And I’m like, “Okay, well how’s this going to happen?” Within 72 hours we had approval from the secretary of defense to move Travis. But what they shared with us was that in order for Travis to be buried next to Brendan, we had to re-inter Travis before Brendan’s funeral.

Ryan Manion:

Don’t quote me on the whole timing of things, but Brendan’s maybe killed on a Monday, and by Friday we’re moving Travis to Arlington and my husband is following his casket down 95 to Arlington Cemetery to have him a place there. So that Friday, re-intered there and the Looneys, Amy, Brendan’s widow who has just lost her husband, is showing up at Arlington Cemetery two days before she’s about to bury her husband to re-inter my brother and her husband’s best friend at Arlington. It was [crosstalk 00:41:51].

Jason Redman:

The other amazing part of the story that I thought was incredible and just a tribute to the Marines, the seal teams were a tight family too, but I know you guys wanted to have just a small ceremony. And not only did Amy show up, but there were like 200 Marines who were standing there in uniform.

Ryan Manion:

It was pretty incredible. We were so focused on Brendan. It was like, this time was about him and his loss and honoring him properly. We didn’t want to take it any of that away, but we want to Brendan and Travis to be together. So we were like, we’re not going to really share this with anybody. Let’s just get Travis moved down here and then we can share the word afterwards. “Hey, just so everyone knows, Travis now rests at Arlington.” Somehow the Marines at Quantico found out. We showed up and 200 Marines in their dress blues standing at full attention. It was pretty incredible. So we bury Travis there on Friday and then showed back up there on Monday to bury Brendan. If you walk around Section 60, it’s pretty interesting because it’s very numerical in the dates.

Ryan Manion:

Then you walk on the aisle that Travis and Brendan are in, and it’s like, Brendan Looney, September 21st, 2010, and then it’s Travis Manion April 29, 2007. And then the next one is, October, 2010. I’m sure people wander around there like, “Why is this random person buried here? Because it doesn’t match with the chronological order of Section 60.

Jason Redman:

Yeah. Such a powerful place. I’ve got a lot of friends that are buried there.

Ray Care:

Too many.

Jason Redman:

But so fitting. Obviously two heroes, three obviously [inaudible 00:43:40] also. One of the biggest things is purpose. Before we get too far along, I want to make that transition because one of the most amazing things that you guys have done is continuing to honor who Travis was and you are paying that forward with the foundation, with the idea that your mom had that you guys grew into something even bigger than I think any of you could ever have imagined. The Travis Manion Foundation is a nationally recognized organization on the level of some of the biggest veteran nonprofits that are out there. That’s a huge thing. A lot of people don’t know. There are 43,000 give or take veteran nonprofits.

Jason Redman:

There’s only, I don’t know, maybe a couple dozen that truly stand at the forefront that are really making a national impact, and you guys are one of them. I love how this unfolded and then it became the organization. I love learning the story in the book of how Travis had gone to the game with your husband prior to his deployment, and obviously there’s a lot of fear. We send our young men and women off to war and husbands, wives, family members. There’s fear, there’s anxiety. Even within the warriors themselves, we all recognize that what we do could potentially cost us our lives, or whatever could happen.

Jason Redman:

Your husband made the comment to him, “Hey, do you have to go? Can you make something up? You could fall on these stairs,” and of course, Travis looked at him incredulously with the famous words of, “If not me, then who? Which has become the foundation of the Travis Manion Foundation. Can you tell us about that? That phrase is so powerful and how it has really become the basis of everything you guys are doing?

Ryan Manion:

Yeah, absolutely. It was after Travis was killed. We had a reporter from the Philadelphia Inquirer that was at our house and he was interviewing us and my husband share that story at the Eagles game with him and shared how Travis had said, “If not me, then who?” Just kind of encapsulating who he was as an individual. I think we all, in the immediate aftermath, we talked about what that meant and him saying, “If not me, then who?” And it was like, okay, well this becomes our mantra going forward because we’ve got to find a way to make sure that we continue his legacy of service. But in starting the Travis Manion Foundation, I don’t think we realize just how powerful those five words were. If you think about the idea of like, what are you going to do today, right? If not me, then who. What type of moment are you going to have today that you’re going to lead by example?

Ryan Manion:

What we’ve done is taken those five words and we use them to drive the veterans that we work with through our programs, but also the youth that we work with. one of the things we do at TMF that’s a little bit different is we’re trying to … our organization is a veteran serving organization, but in the same token, our organization does not exist without veterans reading our programs. We’re not necessarily saying this is what we’re offering to you. We’re saying “Veterans, we need you because we need you to make sure that you’re helping to instill these ideas of character and leadership and service and what it means to be a servant leader in the next generation.”

Ryan Manion:

We know thousands and thousands of veterans that are out across the country working with our next generation and teaching them about the ideas of what it means to live by, if not me, then who, what it means to live a life of service. A lot of that is just around how do you take those five words and apply them into your daily lives? I always say when I’m out there and I’m talking to, it doesn’t matter if I’m talking to kids or I’m talking to adults, I say, “Hey, my challenge for you is very simple. Wake up tomorrow and commit to having an if not me, then who moment?” For kids, that’s as simple as like, pick up the piece of trash on the ground as you’re walking. For adults, maybe it’s, “Hey, try not to lose your temper on your kids.”

Ryan Manion:

It’s simple things like that, but imagine if each and every one of us took those five words and really made them a practical application into our lives. It would cause some huge effective change. I’ll tell you that, and we already see it today.

Ray Care:

Wow.

Jason Redman:

Yeah, no, it’s amazing.

Ray Care:

The character does matter. You’re doing this … expand more about with the kids, like you’re going around. Are you seeing the effects that it needs to have? How powerful is this? Because I’ll tell you what, Jay and I were looking at this and I looked at your bio, and the first thing that reached out to me, before the awesome picture of you and all the words is, if not me, who, how is this affecting this program that you’re doing? What effects are you seeing positive …?

Jason Redman:

Getting it into schools, and how do people out there, how do they get you guys to come to their school and speak? Obviously we need more of this across this country?

Ryan Manion:

Yeah. Well, so we’ve presented this program, this character education program to over 300,000 students across the country. I will say, unfortunately, the demand is more than we can accommodate right now. Our biggest challenge is that we can’t keep up with the demand from schools and youth groups that want this program. So we need more veterans to become veteran mentors. That’s my call out there for all the veterans listening, become a veteran mentor in your community. The cool thing about it is we actually just finished up an 18 month study with Syracuse University on the effectiveness of this program. We found two things. First, the veterans that are leading this program, their levels in terms of their mental health capacities were clearly higher when they were working with and volunteering with kids.

Ryan Manion:

On the flip side, the kids were showing much more positive behaviors towards risky things like drinking drugs, truancy rates were going down. Really, real things were happening as a part of this program with these kids. It was pretty awesome to kind of see the data and the results as opposed to us just feeling it and knowing that it was impactful, but for us to see real data that there was actual change happening. And think about it, you think about our returning veterans, and these men and women that have all volunteered to serve, so they understand the idea of selfless service, right? And then they’re coming back, they’re taking off the uniform and 55% of them are saying that they feel disconnected from their community and they’re lacking a sense of purpose.

Ryan Manion:

Where at the same time, they also have these skills that are not being utilized in the civilian world for the most part. How dumb are we as a country to not take those skills and say, “Hey, we need you to continue applying these skills right here at home. That’s essentially what we’re doing. We’re saying take off the uniform, but those practical applications you’ve learned about leadership and service, like we still need you teaching them right here.”

Ray Care:

You have this amazing program, you have this amazing message, you’re making amazing results. Where can people find you across the board, top to finish? Give us everything you got so we can promote, plug and push what you’re doing, this great mission if you will.

Ryan Manion:

Where? Regionally?

Ray Care:

Yeah, everywhere. Give us platforms, everything you’ve got. Everywhere from the www, to the … everything you’ve got.

Ryan Manion:

Website is www.travismanion.org. We’re on Facebook at Travis Manion foundation, Twitter, TM Foundation. Instagram, Travis Manion Foundation. We’re on every social media platform. Follow us. I say the biggest thing is go on our website and join the mission. You can go on right there and join our mission and find out what’s happening in your area because there’s a ton of different engagement opportunities. Really, what we are trying to build is a community of like-minded individuals that want to have a good time but also want to get out there and make positive change. If that’s everything from doing the Manion WOD to training kids to service projects, you name it, we’re doing it at TMF.

Ray Care:

Well, I’m going to do the Manion WOD here. You mentioned something earlier when we were talking offline about doing it on Thanksgiving Day. I’m going to get up early and I’m going to give you my commitment. I don’t break my promise. I’m going to do it. I know what it is, but maybe you can elaborate real quick on what it is. You know what? let’s do it. Let’s make this a nationwide event. Let’s do it. All in Thanksgiving. Tell them what it is.

Ryan Manion:

On Thanksgiving, so the Manion WOD, actually one of Travis’s really good friends at the Naval Academy in Brussels with him, his name’s Jimmy Latchford. He’s been with CrossFit since he got out of the Marine Corps. After Travis was killed, there was actually, I don’t know if you’re familiar with these hero WODs, but hero WODs are … there’s a few different layers you have to go through to get a WOD named to after a fallen service member. One of them being, you have to show proof that they actually participated in CrossFit, which is an interesting concept. But Jimmy put together this Manion WOD for Travis, and he based it off of the fact that Travis was a wrestler at Navy and Travis had huge legs with just like super strong lower body.

Ryan Manion:

He decided to base it off of his dates, his KIA dates. So it’s 400 meters for the fourth month. 29, wait. Let’s see. 4/29/2007, it was 29 back spots. Yes, 29 back squats and seven rounds.

Jason Redman:

Seven rounds, yap.

Ryan Manion:

I think it’s like what? 95 pounds?

Jason Redman:

It should be 135 or 95, depending … It’s usually the split that they do in CrossFit men versus women.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah, I think it’s 135 and 95, but of course, I’ve seen everyone because you read the WOD at first and people are like, “What? There’s no way.” And I’m like, “Listen, you can tear … or this WOD a thousand different ways. I’ve seen do it, partnered up. You can partner.” Because the first time I did it, I was like, I had no idea what I was getting into. But now, I like to partner it up a little bit or you can do the air squats, but still what you’re doing like a crop tennis squat.

Ray Care:

The purpose is, is to do it, to complete the mission. That’s a key word that we’re using. There’s a bunch of them out there, the [Mervs 00:55:49]. I could go on. I’m going to give you my commitment. I’m not going to shortcut one. I’m going to do 135, 29 times, times seven, and I’m going to run the 400 seven times. I give you that commitment as a man and as a fellow warrior. I’m going to try to talk Jay into doing it also. But yes, I think what people need to understand is, is just do it. I don’t care how you do it, air squat. I’ve had people run in place before, they do whatever the hell they can, but just … it helps the cause, right? The mission.

Jason Redman:

Amen. All right. Well, this amazing obviously with what you guys are doing. People need to go check out travismanion.org, The Travis Marion foundation is doing amazing things. Obviously we have said it so many times that a nation that forgets its defenders soon will be forgotten. So how critical is it for us to honor that sacrifice? You guys are doing it, and then obviously people need to be aware of this book. The knock at the Door. They can buy it at all major booksellers?

Ryan Manion:

Yes.

Jason Redman:

Okay. So they can buy it at all major booksellers. This should be the last question before we close out the show. We’ve kind of come full circle. We’ve come from that moment when you received the knock on the door that led you to write the book that led to the … and obviously about that moment when you lost Travis, which gave you purpose, and everybody needs purpose. We all have these hard moments. If you could give people one piece of advice as they’re going through loss, grief, the scars and ambushes of life to help build that resilience, what would that be?

Ryan Manion:

Well, I’d give two pieces of advice. The first would be to live every day with gratitude. I think before I lost my brother, I didn’t do that. I was just kind of coasting. I wasn’t hyper focused on anything. I am very intentional about waking up every day and being super appreciative for the opportunity that I have to still be here. I said it before, but I hate that it takes something like this to happen to really find that appreciation. I don’t know a better way to do it other than just keep telling my story for people to understand like, “Gosh, I can wake up today and be grateful and have gratitude. Then the second thing is, is be very intentional about the goals that you set and the things that you choose to do, the people you choose to spend your time with.

Ryan Manion:

I think it’s about that intentional living and really making sure that you are living the best life possible, not just for yourself but for others around you. If you’re focused in those two things, I think you can pretty much get through anything.

Jason Redman:

Nice. I love it. It brings us full circle back to the word of the day. It builds that resilience and this life is short, man. We all have to go at some point.

Ray Care:

You’ve got to live it to the fullest each year. I always say each second of the minute of the hour of the day, you gotta just let it all hang out there because you never know when it’s your last day.

Jason Redman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ryan Manion:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jason Redman:

Well Ryan, thank you.

Ray Care:

Thank you, ma’am.

Jason Redman:

Thank you so much for being on. Thank you for what you are doing, not only to honor your brother but obviously to honor our veterans, the Gold Star family members. Please tell Amy thank you and Heather, thank you. You guys wrote an amazing book. We will have it in the notes where people can go, obviously we’ll put in the links. If you guys go watch the YouTube video episode, you will be able to see the links for travismanion.org. Ryan, once again, thank you for being on the show.

Ryan Manion:

Thank you guys. This was awesome.

Jason Redman:

Yeah, absolutely.

Ryan Manion:

Happy Thanksgiving.

Jason Redman:

You too.

Ray Care:

You too.

Jason Redman:

All right. This has been another episode of The Overcome and Conquers Show. I am Jason Overcome Redman.

Ray Care:

And I am Ray Cash Care.

Jason Redman:

And we are out.

Ray Care:

Boom.

Voiceover:

Thanks for listening to The Overcome and Conquer Show. Tune in next time, and please remember to subscribe on iTunes. Please visit, overcomeandconquer.com.

Ray Care:

The overcome and conquer show is presented by The Project. The Project is a full emersion, 75 hour experience designed for men who know when their core they are not living up to their fullest potential. Rather than waking up every morning ready to dominate life, the mediocre man rolls out of bed and slides into the same unfulfilling routine they’ve unhappily been in for way too long. The Project is for men that have lost their eternal flame and motivation to conquer. It is for men living an unfulfilling life that lacks the excitement and purpose. If this resonates with you and you want to learn more, we encourage you to apply today at www.mdkproject.com/ocshow. Boom.